User talk:Nathaniel Dektor

nothing here yet --ND

Well, I'll fix that:

Tasks: start a new article • add basic, wanted or requested articles • add definitions • add metadata • edit new pages

Welcome to the Citizendium! We hope you will contribute boldly and well. Here are pointers for a quick start, and see Getting Started for other helpful "startup" links, our help system and CZ:Home for the top menu of community pages. You can test out editing in the sandbox if you'd like. If you need help to get going, the forum is one option. That's also where we discuss policy and proposals. You can ask any user or the editors for help, too. Just put a note on their "talk" page. Again, welcome and have fun! --Larry Sanger 14:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Biographies

Hi Nathaniel, I notice that you've uploaded several articles (apparently from Wikipedia) about various living people. I can't detect any pattern. So, for lack of a better way to put it: what are you up to? Frankly, it makes me worried because we might have to really fire up our Policy on Topic Informants at a time when we can ill afford the time to do so. In the meantime, could you perhaps focus on some better-known people? Maybe some dead ones?  :-) --Larry Sanger 21:53, 11 March 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for the explanation. OK, the only other thing I'd like to request, if I may, is that you have a look at this page and expand the four WP-sourced articles you've imported. We don't want to create just a mirror of Wikipedia. TIA! --Larry Sanger 11:17, 12 March 2007 (CDT)

Kilmer Middle School

Hi Nathaniel- My personal opinion on articles on things schools is that they should not be included as seperate articles unless they are notable, period. You said the following on my talk page:

Before that page hopefully gets deleted, I'd be interested if you had an opinion or nuances to add regarding what I said on its discussion page. I'll paste my comment here in case the original gets deleted too soon:

What's the use of merely documenting the bare existence of a school? Even if someone diligently maintained the list of faculty, and even a list of notable alumni, I still wouldn't see the appropriateness of such trivia. I'm particularly interested in seeing articles on schools that document the school's history and the ways a particular school is involved with its surrounding community, and its social contexts (generally speaking). I think any obscure school could make for a fine article as long as its history could be told such that its intersection with larger surrounding historical considerations are clear and worthy of note. If one could document, for example, the way a U.S. school handled racial and ethnic issues throughout the different decades of its history, or perhaps how its educational policies fared through different economic periods, I think that would make for a worthy article regardless of how obscure or typical the school may be.

I personally do not see any use in documenting the existence of a school by itself. I don't even want to take a stab to guess how many schools there are in the United States alone. The existence of a school does not make it notable in the least. Maintaining a faculty list alone can be uber-time consuming. If someone wants to call a particular faculty member or department head or even just find out who that person is, I think they would be more likely to contact the school through its website or by calling the administration office to get who they wish to speak with.

Reading about the history of a school is somewhat interesting, however I tend to think that unless there is a very rich, documented history of a school, it would be better to associate things like how a school dealt with a particular issue such as racial or ethical issues on the page for that issue instead of on a page for the school itself. That seems more proper to me than having an entire article dedicated to the school. I do agree that those types of things would be very interesting, but rarely sought after. I think someone looking for information on how schools handled something such a segregation would be more likely to search on segregation itself than to look up "Franklin Park Middle School" to see how that particular school dealt with it.

To me, the types of schools that could have thier own article would be schools with infamous happenings such as Columbine High School, not Kilmer Middle School. I do believe the many universities would probably "qualify" to have thier own articles since thier histories are usually very documented and notable; much more than a middle school or high school.

I just think that time could be better spent working on articles that will be more needed in the long run--especially in these early stages of development.

Anyhow, just my opinion.Kelly Patterson 18:34, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

That is basically what I'm saying: starters of a school article should either be ready to produce a rich, documented history of a school or not bother. I think even an obscure school would be fine (though not a priority on CZ) because that kind of history would intersect issues that have their own pages, e.g. segregation in America or what have you. Averageness itself can be exemplary, and worth having if not repeated too much. Nathaniel Dektor 18:50, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

See the Kilmer Middle School talk page. I guess we both needed a refresher on the policies. Kelly Patterson 22:38, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Just on criteria for deletion, I suppose. I don't think anyone wants articles on schools that merely document a school's existence, although that info is indeed maintainable. Nathaniel Dektor 23:04, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

Crystal Palace

I understand that you insist on "active, economical prose", but Nathanial- at Citizendium it is not considered polite to make stylistic changes in an author's original work- especially just before final approval. Changing an author's work on the grounds that you are "activating the prose" in an well-written article by tenured literature professor is just not...respectful. In other words, I would ask you to reconsider changing Riussell Potter's prose in arbitrary ways. To say something is "palpably recounted" instaed of "recounted in a palpable manner" (I'm paraphrasing from memory), when an author has spent hours devoting an original work to CZ is not an improvement, but an imposition of one style on another, and is easily offputting to that author. The change is not a clear improvement, despite the avoidance of a passive tense. I know I would be, and have been, demoralized by such changes in my own writing. We have a goal to encourage articles and each other, here, and such arbitrary changes are far from encouraging. Would you please consider reverting those edits? It would be wonderful if you would contribute a new article or a start on one. I would do anything in my power to help you accomplish an approved article. It is not a question of ownership of articles, it is a question of respect for author's style and to allow an article to have a consistent voice. Nancy Sculerati 19:09, 7 June 2007 (CDT)

I strongly disagree with the above. We are not here to write individual articles in our own style. There may be stylistic differences from article to article, yes, but there should be a common thread of standard copyediting applied to all of them. I have read the rewritten article, and I fully agree with 95% of the changes as being definite improvements. The only one that I find questionable is the "palpable" phrase, which I find awkward in any case. I think that all of us should inure ourselves to having our prose worked over and, hopefully, improved. Hayford Peirce 19:16, 7 June 2007 (CDT)