Talk:Schnitzel

Thanks to Matt I used a reference tool maker

Thanks to Matt who kindly shared a reference tool maker I learned how to insert the references in the article tonight. I'm sure there are plenty of things wrong with my humble attempt but I am tired after spending about four hours researching and writing. Feel free to edit away! Thanks again Matt I sure do appreciate your help! Mary Ash 04:51, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Your references looked pretty good. Just made some minor edits needed to get references to follow sentence-ending periods without any spacing between the period and the reference. And when there are two references at the end of a sentence, the second one should start immediately after the first one, again with no spacing between the two references. All in all, your references were very much better than previously in other articles.Matt's tool worked quite well. Milton Beychok 05:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

One other thing, Mary. All articles should have an introduction of some kind (even if just a few sentences) before the first section header (History, in this case). Milton Beychok 06:03, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Excellent Mary! Haha, I'm impressed!!! Looks good!

The picture needs a the author's real name. I assume the one we have is a pseudonym. See if he'll give us permission using his real name. D. Matt Innis 19:28, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Matt I added a new photo to the article based on my newly learned information. I spent awhile last night trying to find a "real" name but could not. This newest photo has a real name. The photographer has asked that he be emailed letting him know how the photo was used. I'll email him later today with a link to the article. Thanks for the compliments. I couldn't have done it without the reference tool you sent to help me. It really, really helped. Many thanks!Mary Ash 20:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Good News! You are quite welcome. Keep an eye out for other reference makers, too. Some make it easier for magazines, or journals, etc. The picture looks good! D. Matt Innis 20:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the good edits Milt

Thanks for helping bring the article up to Citizendium style. I was in the kitchen making breakfast so I had to leave the ivory tower of writing for awhile. Thanks again for all your help.Mary Ash 16:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Introduction

The introduction to a CZ article does not include a header (i.e., ==Introduction== is not needed). Also, the first sentence should include the article's title in bold font (i.e., schnitzel in this case). As you can see by looking at other CZ articles, that is our accepted style. I have already made those minor corrections for you. Milton Beychok 17:02, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I knew about the bolding but I had to attend to household duties. As to the introduction, thanks for letting me know.Mary Ash 17:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

The topic of this article

Before this article is further developed there should be agreement on its topic: Is it "schnitzel" or "Wiener schnitzel"? Is it about the international (English-speaking) use of these food terms, or about the German (Austrian) meaning? A third article could be about the "original" Wiener Schnitzel. --Peter Schmitt 17:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Origin (Radetzky)

To my own surprise, one of the first news I found when looking around was the discovery that the Wiener Schnitzel is not derived from the Costoletta alla Milanese. (I'm not sure if I have heard the Radetzky story before.) This requires more research.

One quite definitely advances one's knowledge when collaborating at CZ! --Peter Schmitt 17:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

If you check the reference links one German link (translated thanks to Google) and one German American web site both cite the Radetzky history. I'd appreciate further assistance, if needed, as I only eat schnitzel and they are very good. I'm also quite fond Spatzle and have been known to make some when the weather is cooler. Mary Ash 17:41, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

And Wikipedia, which I did not check, seems to agree with the Radetzky story. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnitzel. It would be interesting to see what you find out as I am sure it will help improve the article. Thanks! Mary Ash 17:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Mary. I know that you did not invent the story, and I would have told you that it came from Milano, too. It was a surprise for me. (But I knew that I would have to check some books ... not yet done!) The pointer was on the German WP, though. --Peter Schmitt 17:47, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks so much! Much to my Dad's regret I never could learn to speak or read German. I am dependent your expert skills to make this article the best it can be. BTW family history says my ancestors came from PrussiaMary Ash 18:00, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

pictures

I have two homemade pix, one of the uncooked, one of the cooked. I'll put them in later today. Hayford Peirce 19:46, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

That will work! Did you just cook it? D. Matt Innis 19:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Missed your message and I did had a new photo with hopefully the correct information. I made sure to find a photo with a real name attached. Mary Ash 20:01, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

That's it! I see he asked for an email, too. DId you send him one? D. Matt Innis 20:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

The picture that Mary put in is much too dark. And too large. I have reduced its size but left it there -- I will let others decide if my picture is superior. I will now put in a picture of an *uncooked* cutlet. Hayford Peirce 20:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Mary's picture may be too dark, Hayford, (this can probably be changed with a picture editor), but it is the better picture. It shows a Wiener Schnitzel as it should be, with a lemon (I do not need it, but it is tradition) and potato salad. Apple sauce (you are thinking of Apfelkren, apple sauce with horseradish, for a Tafelspitz, I suppose) and the other items (peas, and what is that on the right?) are not at all usual. Moreover, the schnitzel is rather small and the coating does not look right. Sorry, Hayford :-) (This shows that I was right (see above) to say that we need articles on the true one, and one on all the others ... --Peter Schmitt 20:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) Peter different folks eat food in different ways. Most, if not all, the schnitzels I made were not large. Although after looking through numerous Wikimedia Commons photos I discovered the schnitzels came in all sizes. I don't eat schnitzel much any more as it gives me heartburn. When I do eat schnitzel, it is Jager Schnitzel, which I love, with spatzle. Some people like it with egg noodles or potatoes. All a matter of taste. Mary Ash 20:32, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

That is just the reason why it is necessary to agree on the topic of this page. Is it on dishes internationally called schnitzel, or is it about a Wiener schnitzel (international), or a Wiener Schnitzel (the Vienna version that gives it its name)? --Peter Schmitt 20:40, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Kaiser Basileios

No one in the 9th century was called a "Kaiser". Also, the story itself sounds nonsensical -- it definitely needs a footnote authenticating this assertion. Hayford Peirce 20:16, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

About what are you talking, Hayford? It seems I am missing something. --Peter Schmitt 20:28, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

About this statement: "Kaiser Basileios (867 to 886 AD) liked eating his meat covered in gold which eventually lead to cutlets being cooked in bread crumbs. The bread crumbs were substituted to represent the gold leaf covered meat as a cost saving measure." Are you telling me that a byzantine emperor was called "Kaiser"? And that he ate his schnitel covered in gold? If so, please give me a reputable source for this statement. Hayford Peirce 20:33, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

For your reference: The German is here: Basileios II. der Bulgarentöter (griechisch Basíleios Bulgaroktónos Βασίλειος ὁ Βουλγαροκτόνος, bulg. Василий българоубиец/Wasilij Bulgaroubiez; * 958 in Didymoticho; † 15. Dezember 1025 in Konstantinopel) war von 976 bis 1025 Kaiser des Byzantinischen Reiches. Seine Regierungszeit gilt allgemein als ein Glanzpunkt der byzantinischen Geschichte.

Inhaltsverzeichnis [Verbergen]

   * 1 Leben
         o 1.1 Die frühen Jahre
         o 1.2 Kämpfe gegen Bulgaren und Behauptung im Osten
   * 2 Bewertung
   * 3 Anmerkungen
   * 4 Quelle
   * 5 Literatur
   * 6 Weblinks

Leben [Bearbeiten]

Or translated: Basil II of the Bulgarians slayer (Greek Basil Bulgaroktonos Βασίλειος ὁ Βουλγαροκτόνος, Bulgarian Василий българоубиец / Vasily Bulgaroubiez, * 958 in Didymotiho; † December 15, 1025 in Constantinople) 976-1025 emperor of the Byzantine Empire. His reign is generally considered a high point of Byzantine history. Contents [Hide]

   * 1 Life
         o 1.1 The early years
         O 1.2 fights against Bulgarians and contention in the East

Which refers to the Byzantine emperor as a Kaiser in German. Hubby dearest, who loves Byzantine history is not here as he's out on an errand, but I'm sure he would agree with the terminology. I also found numerous independent sources all stating similar tales.

OR

Krieg und Kriegführung in Byzanz: Die Kriege Kaiser Basileios II. gegen die Bulgaren (976-1019) [Gebundene Ausgabe] Paul Meinrad Strässle (Autor) Noch keine Kundenrezensionen vorhanden: Schreiben Sie die erste! Preis: EUR 119,00 kostenlose Lieferung. Siehe Details.

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It seems the German translation would include the term Kaiser. Kaiser means emperor and Baileios proves this out as he was Byznatine emperor or Kaiser.Mary Ash 20:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

I am not telling you anything. I never saw this statement (on this page). But it is told on German Food Guide and probably elsewhere. It is a legend like the Radetzky story. But there is more research needed before reasonable statements can be made. --Peter Schmitt 20:50, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

"revert wars"

Mary, we do NOT have revert wars at CZ. I removed that statement once, and wrote about it on the Talk page. You have restored it without attribution or discussion. I am now removing it again, and if you put it back I will call for a Constable to examine your behavior. Hayford Peirce 20:35, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

There were numerous sources all stating similar things. Did you check the sources listed? Also, I have included an explanation on the talk page for you to read. Please read and check the sources before making unfounded claims. As to the constable go call him/her as I suspect they will find YOUR actions were not within Citizendium guidelines while mine were. Check your research please. Mary Ash 20:55, 8 August 2010 (UTC)